However, even thousands of years into the future, the tropical zodiac will remain tied to the Earths relationship to the Sun. Of these, the most widely used ayanamsha by Vedic astrologers worldwide is the Lahiri ayanamsha, also called the the Chitrapaksha ayanamsha. On a much longer timeframe, over the course of millennia, the position of stars will have appreciably changed and 0 Aries would no longer be determinable from the constellations because for all practical purposes the constellation of Aries would no longer exist. Since the Earth-Sun relationship is very stable, leading to a tropical zodiac with definitive beginnings and endings that can remain constant for as long as the Earth spins, so too does it represent things which are archetypally unchanging or eternal about life on Earth. So much makes sense now. The twelfth year, like Pisces, has qualities of dissolution and death before the rebirth again with the next Jupiter return. Not only was the consultation both fun and interesting but Patricks feedback for the questions I asked him was invaluable. Its hard to be clear and objective when we feel threatened in any way and its easy to dismiss a seemingly opposing viewpoint to save having to expand out of our comfort zones. I dont agree with you on everything for instance I think if were going to be renaming signs (which, lets be honest, I doubt many will be convinced to do) that the Tropical zodiac should keep the names and symbols since it is supposed to be the unchanging one. The whole sign house system With the Whole Signs House system, each house begins at 0 degrees of the sign. So it doesnt matter if you use the sidereal or tropical zodiac because you might as well be divining the skidmarks in a toilet bowl and it would be equally valid as a divinatory tool. You would be Virgo ascendant, if at the time of your birth, the sign Virgo was rising from above the ground, in a way similar to the rising of he sun. From the perspective of the sidereal zodiac, the equinoxes and solstices could be considered akin to Nodes or Earth angles in a sense, which gradually shift backward through the constellations. My consultation went really well. From the tropical perspective, this could be done by simply considering which stars are present in each tropical sign, and forming an image with the stars that matches the nature of the planet ruling that sign. Whilst this isn't a debate of whether one is "better" or "more accurate" than the other, there are some significant differences between the two that should be taken into account. Tl, dr: If youre thinking about doing a reading with Patrick, go for it! All the stars revolve around the galactic center, which is currently around 3 sidereal Sagittarius (Lahiri)/27 tropical Sagittarius. RT @saturnsscepter: That Tropical Virgo to Sidereal Leo switch will never click in my birth chart lmaooo I've been looking at that shit for 10 years now waiting to feel it I see it in so many other Sidereal Leos but never in myself like not even a little bit. After a long period of axial precession, theyve tried to make it work, theyve gone to counseling, theyve tried reigniting that old spark, but its undeniable that theyve drifted apart. Patrick is not just skilled at chart interpretation; he thinks like a scientist, continually working out techniques that emerged from recent translations, which, in my opinion, always contain an interpretive dimension, particularly 2,000 years beyond the writing of the text and the culture within which the text was produced. This is why they are both made up of the exact same zodiac signs: Aries, Taurus, Gemini, Cancer, Leo, Virgo, Libra, Scorpio, Sagittarius, Capricorn, Aquarius and Pisces. The Age of Virgo (approximately 15,000 - 12,500 BCE) is an extremely fascinating time. This makes sense because the ascendant is the starting point of the horoscope and the quickest moving indication in the chart so is could be considered more personally associated with your identity or you. In practice, the ascendant or 1st house relates more to ones self, identity and personality traits than any other house. The sun is in Virgo on or about August 23rd to September 22nd under the tropical zodiac and September 17 to October 17 under the sidereal zodiac. Its my opinion that you can get an accurate reading, both in terms of psychological interpretation and prediction, using either system. He also helped me realize how my passions and interests appear in my chart, and gave me advice on how to anticipate incorporating passion/purpose and find a career. HIGHLY RECOMMENDED! Mercury's nocturnal sign is associated with skills, trades, industriousness, measurements and exactitudes. True Sidereal involves less of a struggleit has a more natural flow and sits better. It cannot be meaningfully done. By my purchase of this horary service I acknowledge and agree to the following terms and conditions: 1) I do not hold Patrick Watson to be legally liable for any circumstances or consequences arising from his analysis of my question. Madison Louise 12/9/21 Madison Louise 12/9/21. I am new to astrology and the accuracy of what he was able to predict about me and events in my past was astounding. It should be envisioned and understood as a solar zodiac, a construct explicitly derived from the Earth-Sun relationship and distinct from stars. This is what I think the relationship is like between the tropical and sidereal zodiac. I've appreciated his bluntness and honesty regarding unfavorable placements, his insight into the areas of life in which they fall and his imput on the brighter side of my chart. The constellational images alone do not provide much justification for a sidereal sign to be ruled by a particular planet. Best system ever. I never knew about some interpretation of my natal placements but Patrick described. I'd give an example of a female that mention she's a Virgo moon . That being said, I would not have been able to predict this pandemic without the premise of how things work and using the sidereal zodiac. I. learned how the interactions between the various planets of my natal chart worked together, showing areas that might show ease and others that might be more problematic. In essence, the dates of the sidereal zodiac or astrology . 3) Prices are provided in USD. I dont know that anything went wrong. Obviously, our civilization was meant to have both zodiacs. until the time of my reading which is FINE if it wouldve resulted in more information about me. I ended up booking a reading with a different astrologer who said a lot of the same things (and a lot of new) but way more fleshed out and edifying. I contend that planetary rulerships have a distinct connection to the tropical zodiac in the northern hemisphere. var d=new Date();var n=d.toLocaleDateString();var t=d.toLocaleTimeString();document.write(n + "
" + t); By my purchase I acknowledge and agree the following terms and conditions: 1) I do not hold Patrick Watson to be legally liable for any circumstances or consequences arising from my independent decision to undertake any action based on the timing recommendations provided by this electional service. The Vedic texts shed very little light on psychological patterns and emphasize prediction, whereas its just the opposite with the Western reference texts. The Sidereal Zodiac model is one of the two fundamental astrological systems that divide the celestial sphere into twelve segments, or astrological signs. Eventually their resistances are broken down and theyre able to contain a broader, more all encompassing viewpoint. I love this explanation of the, sidereal vs tropical debate. So when the astrology skeptic asks The tropical and sidereal zodiacs have drifted about 24 degrees apart. This would dovetail with my theory of the tropical zodiac representing the regularities of life on Earth, whats archetypally eternal and recurring. These original constellations, like Gemini, Capricornus, Scorpius, and Cancer, are bands of stars, at various widths, that cluster along the sun's imaginary path around the Eartha path known as the ecliptic. All the qualities of the tropical signs can be derived from their tropical fundamentals without reference to their constellations, instead based on their rulership, gender/sect, element, mode, etc. In a situation where Patrick Watson agrees a refund is warranted, refunds for purchases made in crypto will only be provided in USD at the original USD price. Western astrology is historically based on Ptolemy's Tetrabiblos (2nd century CE), which in turn was a continuation of Hellenistic and ultimately Babylonian traditions.. Western astrology is largely horoscopic, that is, it is a form of divination based on the construction of a horoscope for an exact moment, such as . As tempting as it is for tropical astrologers to reference constellational images, its problematic on a conceptual level. tropical or sidereal moon in virgos. From this perspective, the friction between the tropical and the sidereal zodiacs comes from a disagreement about the Suns place in the hierarchy relative to other stars. When considering that different cultures have had the same instinct to find patterns and fashion myths out of the stars, we could come away with the notion that there is something about the stars which represent something eternal. This means in 25,920 years, the tropical zodiac will have made a full rotation against a given fixed point in space. Interesting information on the topic that have plagued many, pun intended. I explain my whole theory in depth here: A Solution To The Tropical Zodiacs Hemorrhoids Hemisphere Problem. July 22, 2021: Sun enters sign Leo (120 degrees) Aug 22, 2021: Sun enters sign Virgo (150 degrees) Sep 22, 2021: Sun enters sign Libra (180 degrees) Oct 23, 2021: Sun enters sign Scorpio (210 . All that brainpower put to constructive and instructive use, and so young. The sidereal system is based on the current position of the constellations. Lets face it were basically creatures of habit. I knew that if I was ever going to get a reading it had to be with an astrologer that practiced and worked with the Hellenistic techniques - the most accurate techniques I believe are around today in the astrological world -. unique with my sidereal. Plato offers an unwitting alternative explanation to the tension between the sidereal and tropical zodiacs. The Moon is related to traditional feminine behavior, i.e. In astrology, sidereal and tropical terms are used to describe two different year meanings. This option is tempting but the stakes are high. , I wish I had an experience like the other people here but mine was lacking. Sidereal natal chart. Under the tropical impeccably dressed Virgo lies the sidereal Leo and Chiron (it's beyond stupid, but I have to . The stars (and the constellations) are furthest away and so represent the highest or purest ideals, but our Sun is also a star and is also the one most intimately acquainted with our planet on a geophysical and metaphysical level. This was developed by N.C. Lahiri, the former head of Astro-Research Bureau of Calcutta. From this we can get the twelve zodiac positions, the galactic center (Milky Way, river of heaven). Western astrology mostly uses the tropical zodiac, in which 0 Aries is fixed at the vernal point. If you didnt hear this kind of talk coming from astrologers, youd think it was coming from skeptical trolls mocking astrology. Not only does he exhibit an extraordinary depth of knowledge, skill, talent, professionalism, and passion in his craft, as well as demonstrate a notably strong capacity to pinpoint the precise timing of imperative events in peoples lives via Zodiacal Releasing & other beautiful techniques, but his approach achieves the ideal balance of kind sensitivity and 100% honesty. Outside the ship is the unpredictability of the ocean, the capriciousness of the weather, the glacially shifting climate. The question is what sign constellation do you assign to the planets? This is why I think Western astrology makes sense even though it uses a symbolic zodiac. 2) Analysis provided by this horary service are based on Patrick Watsons opinion of astrological factors and are not intended to contradict, supersede or be in any way a substitute for the advice of qualified professionals in other fields such as medicine, law or finance, etc. She rules Libra, . The two Zodiac signs that we have today are the Tropical Zodiac and the Sidereal Zodiac. I had a general chart reading today with Patrick. This system divides the year into 12 equal parts, assigning one sign of the Zodiac to each part. and motifs in my life. When taken together over a period of 5 million years (a cosmic blip) it looks completely chaotic, more like an aquarium. Virgo is the sixth sign of the zodiac. So I learned physics/metaphysics from Ken Wheeler. If youre a sidereal astrologer, then go right ahead with the lion analogies, but just keep in mind that the constellation has an expiration date. From that point of view, the stars are fixed while tropical moves. I loved your essay/article as Ive been perplexed by the differences in natal charts in the tropical and sidereal. You have a good grasp of astrology brother. Vedics and Hellenists devised their system of divination using philosophical approaches on an imprecise view of the cosmos using the limited charting capabilities of the time. What if there was a way to project our culture onto the stars in a way that was meaningful today? Difference Between Tropical and Sidereal Zodiac. Tropical astrologers might have to rethink the meaning of fixed stars. This makes accurate measurements meaningless and arbitrary, because meaning can be derived from any chart regardless of if its the right one or not, as long as its the one you saw in that moment. I can share more of this if youd like. 4) I accept Patrick Watsons right to refuse service and provide a full refund on the basis of any ethical, legal or other concerns about my electional request. it all depends on the story you want to have in this lifetime. Sidereal is more like fixed do, in that the order and starting point never change, regardless of the key. I highly recommend a reading with Patrick. This is why some argue that your Vedic chart can be so accurate for prediction with actual events on Earth and your Western chart is better for describing the psychological effects the actual events may have on your psyche. The Moon and Sun rule the signs where the Sun is in the hottest part of the year, Saturn rules the signs where the Sun is in the coldest part of the year, etc. Scorpio: November 23 to December 6. chart. Tropical Leo would still be ruled by the Sun in any age, but depending on what stars are in tropical Leo in a given age would change ones experience of certain degrees in the sign, and consequently the overall impression we might have of the sign in a given era. The Difference Between Tropical and Sidereal Astrology In a situation where Patrick Watson agrees a refund is warranted, refunds for purchases made in crypto will only be provided in USD at the original USD price. He is quite gifted and can do many types of readings. As per Vedic astrology - Sidereal zodiac, the individual is a Leo. I really agree astrology needs some freshening up. I see this all as tools and a means to an end. Anyway, while reading, I had this flash of insight: The specific symbolism of the zodiac and workings of astrology in the signs are imprinted upon it from the time of its birth. He gave me some really interesting, perspectives into my birth chart. Patrick is an excellent astrologer and will provide you guidance and insight. Then the cultural projection would not be arbitrary but meaningful for the era theyre formed in and for the culture they come from. His interpretations align with my life themes greatly. Since the stars in constellations are unstable, indeterminate and changing in the long term from our perspective, so too do they and sidereal zodiacs attached to them, represent what is incidental and specific to an era in time. For instance, the Sun passing into Aries conveys the qualities of Spring active, energetic, vigorous creative new life etc. Another response is to render the question irrelevant by foregoing the cultural constructs of zodiacs altogether, focusing instead just on planetary geometry. Each zodiac sign is given 30 of space in the tropical zodiac (12 x 30 = 360), so that the signs always match the seasons: Aries to . Yet in my Draconic natal chart, Virgo cusps my . I was hooked - watched the videos, read the blog; all of which I found all to be super interesting and in my opinion pretty funny. How can modern astrologers using the sidereal zodiac and the tropical zodiac both be right? Leo's often choose the wrong partner and end up with a broken heart. I really like his timing techniques. The December solstice is 0 Capricorn. The tropical zodiac needs to solve its hemisphere problem. It's not as confusing as it may seem to understand why. On the other hand, this seems to imply that your Western chart is more grounded in practical matters on Earth, and your Vedic chart is more spiritual and ethereal. If you accept there are objective astrological correlations but you dont want to abandon the notion of a zodiac, we have these remaining options: But then comes an arguably trickier question: If the zodiacs have different meanings, what could they be? The difference between Vedic or Sidereal astrology and Tropical or Western astrology comes from different ecliptic coordinates. We even celebrate Labor Day when the Sun is in this sign, so Mercury's nocturnal earthy home is in Labora. Both forms of astrology contain signs named after constellations. Overall, I couldn't have been more satisfied than this. We may have to revisit our view of constellations period. I wouldnt recommend this service. Read More. He provided so much information and I feel not only INCREDIBLY pleased with my reading, but that I sincerely have been equipped with so much more knowledge about astrology, my own life and what to expect in the upcoming years. I was aware that plenty of cultures used sidereal but it seems the interpretations were skewed with because currently Tropical seems to be the only one that consistently . Tropical zodiac sun sign is used in Western astrology. Adjusted for precession it will be Leo 22. He's a really cool guy with great character. Richard Tarnas also sidesteps the zodiac question by only focusing on the hard aspects between the outer planets in his investigation of thematically recurring historical trends in his book Cosmos and Psyche. 6 Tropical Virgo will be impeccably prepared anytime it has to face the outside world, under the "rule" of curious Mercury. I love it! Its 12th is Libra. The obvious reason why emphasizing one sign is limited is that there are so many potential configurations from which to interpret the same descriptive traits. Not only do the constellational images seem to be informed by a planetary ruler rather than the other way around, but the constellational images themselves reference tropical eventssuch as the Scales for Libra, where day and night are balanced at the September equinox. The tropical zodiac is fundamentally based on the relationship between the Earth and the Sun. Table of Contents show. For instance, when you were born on 10th September 1994, your actual and true Sun sign is Leo (sidereal), and not Virgo (tropical). The ayanamsha will be 180 degrees 0 minutes!! Another important point is - 3,000 yrs. Earth represents a baseline of base physicality and flawed humanity. There are two Zodiac systems that correspond to the two schools of astrology tropical and . From this perspective, when we look at the stars through the tropical zodiac, were looking at how whats incidental and specific to an era in time relates to whats unchanging and archetypal. You wont be disappointed! This makes some sense due to the relative vantage points in terms of distance. Cancer: July 17 to August 6. Some people say that your Western chart is more earthy and represents your personality and your Vedic chart is more spiritual and represents your soul. The sidereal zodiac is based on the Earth going around the galaxy, reflecting the archetypally incidental cultural context of eras of life. The fundamental differences between them speak to the unique perspectives derived from them, rather than representing the same thing. The diagram shows the starting points (Aries) of the two zodiac systems. If the Earths rotation and the consequent regularity of day and night is the circle of the Same, and the Earth-Sun relationship is the basis for the tropical zodiac, then perhaps the tropical zodiac could be considered a grander circle of the Same. Zodiacal motion runs opposite of diurnal motion. The exclusively divinatory view of astrology is problematic for the technical aspects and real world application of astrology, and it pisses on the legacy of ancient skywatchers who toiled to make sense of cosmic mechanics and who first noticed the phases of the wandering stars correlating with events on Earth. Regulus is a star that I will associate with a lion as opposed to tropical Leo if you catch my drift. The Sidereal Zodiac is based on the fixed . He has a logical approach to astrology that truly connected, and he has inspired me to learn about myself through my chart. Example Calculations:Tropical Positions Sidereal PositionsAsc: 11 Gemini 23 = 18 TaurusSun: 14 Scorpio 23 = 21 LibraMoon: 10 Virgo 23 = 17 LeoMercury: 28 Libra 23 = 5 LibraVenus: 8 Libra 23 = 15 VirgoMars: 25 Capricorn 23 = 2 CapricornJupiter: 9 Pisces 23 = 16 AquariusSaturn: 24 Aquarius 23 = 1 AquariusNorth Node: 18 Sagittarius 23 = 5 ScorpioSouth Node: 18 Gemini 23 = 5 Taurus(Optional)Uranus: 24 Leo 23 = 1 LeoNeptune: 3 Libra 23 = 10 VirgoPluto: 14 Virgo 23 = 21 Leo. I know there are some divisions within the community of sidereal astrologers on this topic, and I am not a siderealist, but as an outsider there seems to be a pretty clear solution to all the different anayamsas out there. Whats worse is that if it does work for everyone regardless of what zodiac you use, then it helps the astrology skeptics point that astrology isnt a real phenomenon and isnt based on accurate or consistent measurements. I will definitely come back for more readings in the future. Sidereal, and there's a story about it, in Tropical/Traditional, I have a Leo ASC. My website: http://www.astrologykrs.comHoroscope consultation- http://www.astrologykrs.com/Shop.htmlThe debate of correct ayanamsa in astrology Lahire vs. K.. On smaller time scales, the tropical zodiac drifts backward against the backdrop of the stars which appear to stay fixed. Leo: August 7 to September 14. Most astrologers, even if theyre exclusively tropical or sidereal, dont want to write off the other as just wrong. What went wrong? In Western or tropical astrology the calculation of the Sun passing through the 1st degree of Aries is marked by the Vernal equinox or March 21st. Due to precession, the zodiacal degrees move. In other words, the stars are further away than our Sun, which is the closest star. This is not to confuse the sidereal zodiac with the constellational zodiac, its a rough approximation of the constellations. Here are my suggestions: Everyone knows things sound more legit if they sound Latin, and ending all the signs with an a allows them to be used as adjectives. well, here are two fates presented before you; now you get to exercise your free will. Up until the last century or so, before the discoveries of Uranus, Neptune, Pluto and Chiron, the classical rulerships of the signs were used in both systems. The sidereal zodiac is already divided into 27 nakshatras, which are appropriately named after celestial beings. I've been sitting on the fence about getting an astrological consultation for a while, until I discovered Patrick and, Big Fat Astro. Sight-singing with a movable do allows you to sing in different keys by always associating do with the fundamental tone. I'm. It spans the 150-180th degree of the zodiac, between 152.75 and 180 degree of celestial longitude, which the Tropical zodiac the Sun transits this area on average between August 23 to September 22 each year. He talks about two intersecting circles, one with the motion of the Same and one with the motion of the Other. Then well really have a lot of explaining to do with regards to the two systems because theyll be exactly opposite one another!! Whos fixed now, bitch?!? The circle of the Same he equated with diurnal motion, the Earths turn which gives us a regular day and night cycle, always the same. Im not sure how far we could take the analogy, but keeping it within the framework of astrology itself makes my brain happy ^_^. In general the principle Im following is that sidereal reasoning should be used for the sidereal zodiac and tropical reasoning should be used for the tropical zodiac. At the Summer Solstice, the Sun moves into Cancer; the Autumn Equinox begins the Sun's movement into . In this video we are going to talk about the transit of Saturn in Pisces which will last from 2023 to 2026. Sider means star and therefore sidereal astrology is based on the actual astronomical positions of the planets against the backdrop of the fixed star constellations. Sidereal zodiac sun sign is used in Indian astrology. Overall, it felt like a flimsy reading. In other words, where the Sun actually is at the time of the Spring equinox moves backward through the zodiac. How do you think mundane studies of planetary cycles through history works if not linking the right celestial event with the right earthly event? They are usually warm, sunny, funloving and generous people. It is rare in life to meet someone with a keen intellect, sensitive interpersonal communication, a wellspring of. So while the debate about constellations and planets goes on, and which possibility comes to no more than how many angels can dance on the head of a pin My Equilibrian Sun is making an out-of-sign conjunction to my Mortalian Moon by 3 degrees. Jan 8, 2023 - || tropical: virgo libra aquarius ||sidereal: leo virgo capricorn 21 / they-them / life path 5 requests are open His reading for me was profound and answered many questions I had about trends. His predictions are very consistent. 25 Feb 2023 23:31:08 An easy way to do this in your head, if the planet's degrees are less than 23 degrees in any given sign, is to add 7 degrees and go back a sign. I had an amazing consultation with Patrick and his reading truly resonated with me. August 11 - September 17 Virgo: August 24 - September 22: September 17 - October 18: September 17 - October 30 Libra: September 23 - October 23: October 18 - November 17: I had a reading yesterday with Patrick, and it was one of the most helpful, thorough and on-target readings of my life. Venus is the atmakaraka and thus in the svamsha. I really enjoyed my reading and felt that I learned so much in just 1 hour. If it's Cancer 28 in the sidereal zodiac in 1951, it will still be Cancer 28 in 2023. DRACONIC: Capricorn Asc Sagittarius Sun, Venus, Mercury, Saturn 11H They'd even schedule, lists and focus on organizing things. Thank you Patrick. He is a genius that has studied Tesla, Stienmetz, Heaviside, Maxwell and is known to be the top expert on fields/magnetism/physics and metaphysics. helpful insights into the topics I expressed my curiosity about. I really enjoyed his consultation and. This may also bring us to question whether the constellational images established long ago by Babylonians and later featured figures of Greek and Roman mythology still apply to our modern global society of today (they still do), or if we could project our own myths and images onto the stars? Likewise, you could take any developmental pattern and transpose the zodiac. Learn how your comment data is processed. Western astrologers prefer to line up the planets in the zodiac according to the seasons, whereas Vedic astrologers prefer to orient them to the fixed stars. Scientists will be familiar with this as the propagation of uncertainty. sec. I personally think Vedic Astrology is the big winner because they have had the longest to breathe life into their creation. He expresses a deep knowledge and understanding not only of the field of astrology, and a persons chart, but the person themselves.

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